(Ken Silva, Headline USA) CBS’s 60 Minutes went to great lengths Sunday to demonstrate that Jan. 6 provocateur Ray Epps is not an FBI informant or employee, but it did little to quell suspicion that he may have nonetheless been a federal asset.
“He’s obsessed with me,” Ray Epps says of Fox News host Tucker Carlson. “He’s … [trying] to destroy my life.”
Carlson has focused on Epps more than 20 times on his show, which Epps says is to shift blame from those who really instigated rioters on Jan. 6. pic.twitter.com/pBRS6tMji3
— 60 Minutes (@60Minutes) April 23, 2023
Epps is the controversial figure seen on camera on Jan. 5 and 6, 2021, urging protestors to enter the Capitol. He initially appeared on the FBI’s wanted list in relation to the Capitol rioting, only to be removed in the summer of 2021 with no explanation.
More damning information about Epps has come out since then, including a text message he sent to his nephew saying, “I was in front with a few others. I also orchestrated it”—referring to the initial breach of the Capitol grounds.
Epps also reportedly admitted to the FBI that he trespassed on Capitol grounds—a crime other J6ers have been arrested for—and made a bizarre comment about expecting a bombing to happen that day.
But despite this, 60 Minutes called the notion that Epps is a federal asset a “convoluted conspiracy theory” in its interview published Sunday night—the first televised appearance of Epps since the infamous videos of him calling protestors to breach the Capitol first circulated.
To the show’s credit, Epps was asked about these videos.
“I said some stupid things,” Epps admitted. “My thought process was we surround the Capitol and get all the people there. I had problems with the election.”
Epps was also asked about his seemingly incriminating text message, to which he responded that he was just trying to impress his nephew. He added that his wife was furious at him over his choice of words.
But then, 60 Minutes interviewed former Jan. 6th Commission staffer Thomas Joscelyn, a Senior Fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, who didn’t address any of the evidence but nevertheless downplayed suspicions about Epps.
“If Ray Epps was a covert plant, he’s the worst covert plant of all time,” Joscelyn said.
Epps, for his part, again denied being an asset for the FBI or any other federal agency.
The FBI also publicly commented on Epps for the first time, reportedly telling 60 Minutes that “Ray Epps has never been an FBI source or an FBI employee.” The FBI and DOJ had refused to answer this question to lawmakers such as Rep. Thomas Massie, R-Ky., and Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas.
However, 60 Minutes apparently did not ask the DHS, CIA, Pentagon, Capitol Police or any other law enforcement or intelligence agency whether Epps is a federal asset. Nor did it ask whether Epps may have been working for a private agency serving as a U.S. government cutout—such as when the FBI used the Southern Policy Law Center as an intelligence cutout to spy on extremist groups in the 1990s.
The 60 Minutes interview followed a New York Times profile on Epps last summer, as well as defenses of him mounted by people such as anti-Trump former congressman Adam Kinzinger.
The defense of Epps by these institutions and people is yet more evidence to some, including Massie, that Epps is a suspicious actor.
Ray Epps is the only person I’ve seen on video January 5th and January 6th urging and directing people to go into the Capitol. In a text message on January 6th he bragged that he orchestrated it. Why do democrats and the media portray him as the victim? So bizarre. https://t.co/zEY27XGdgi
— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 23, 2023
“Ray Epps is the only person I’ve seen on video January 5th and January 6th urging and directing people to go into the Capitol,” Massie said after the 60 Minutes interview aired. “In a text message on January 6th he bragged that he orchestrated it. Why do democrats and the media portray him as the victim? So bizarre.”
